Wednesday, July 28, 2010

DTE.ORG.IN and Open Source

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Hi,
   Engineering, Diploma etc. admissions processes are online. The website for it is dte.org.in . Unfortunately Technical board doesn't seems to care about users who don't use IE. When you go to http://www.dte.org.in/FE2010/StaticPages/Default.aspx , this is what it says: "Sorry, this Application is Supported only on IE6, IE7 & IE8" .
Same applies when Diploma admission link is visited. I think this is clear case of vendor locking. Is there any way to protest?



Thanks and regards,
Mithun,
http://blog.imithun.in


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On Monday 26 July 2010 10:24 AM, Mithun Shitole wrote:
Hi,
   Engineering, Diploma etc. admissions processes are online. The website for it is dte.org.in . Unfortunately Technical board doesn't seems to care about users who don't use IE. When you go to http://www.dte.org.in/FE2010/StaticPages/Default.aspx , this is what it says: "Sorry, this Application is Supported only on IE6, IE7 & IE8" .
Same applies when Diploma admission link is visited. I think this is clear case of vendor locking. Is there any way to protest?

Thanks and regards,
Mithun,
http://blog.imithun.in


_______________________________________
Pune GNU/Linux Users Group Mailing List
http://dte.org.in/feedback/feedback.asp
http://dte.org.in/contact/contact.asp


Did you try to send feedback/email using above links? If no, the first step would be sending email and sending feedback as well.

I also stumbled upon http://dte.org.in/rdte/index.asp

regards,
shantanoo
- Hide quoted text -


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On Tuesday 27 July 2010 00:46:39 शंतनू wrote:
 On Monday 26 July 2010 10:24 AM, Mithun Shitole wrote:
       Engineering, Diploma etc. admissions processes are online. The
       website for it is dte.org.in . Unfortunately Technical board doesn't       seems to care about users who don't use IE. When you go to
       http://www.dte.org.in/FE2010/StaticPages/Default.aspx , this is what
       it says: "Sorry, this Application is Supported only on IE6, IE7 & IE8" .
      Same applies when Diploma admission link is visited. I think this is
      clear case of vendor locking. Is there any way to protest?

 http://dte.org.in/feedback/feedback.asp
 http://dte.org.in/contact/contact.asp

 Did you try to send feedback/email using above links? If no, the first
 step would be sending email and sending feedback as well.
 I also stumbled upon http://dte.org.in/rdte/index.asp
additionally the website works with user agent spoofing so there nothing IE
specific really. You may want to add that in the feedback.

Also to complete the process it goes to
http://mkcl.biz/fe2010/StaticPages/Default.aspx. which again has the identical
screen. So I believe this site and services are provided by mkcl to DTE and
mkcl is the correct entity to protest to.

Since mkcl provides web development services to lots of government
organizations, this will have wider impact.

and the second link works with user agent spoofing too.
--
Regards
 Shridhar

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Hi All,

Government seems to be lazy over acting on such things.
While I was undergoing admssion process in 2007-08, I faced same problem. That time I had sent feedback emails to the respective authorities, but unfortunately no reply has ever come.
I think strong grouped protest is required for such things.



Vinayak Kulkarni
http://kulkarnivd1989.blogspot.com
*

> On Monday 26 July 2010 10:24 AM, Mithun Shitole wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>    Engineering, Diploma etc. admissions processes are online. The website
>> for it is dte.org.in . Unfortunately Technical board doesn't seems to
>> care about users who don't use IE. When you go to
>> http://www.dte.org.in/FE2010/StaticPages/Default.aspx , this is what it
>> says: "Sorry, this Application is Supported only on IE6, IE7 & IE8" .
>> Same applies when Diploma admission link is visited. I think this is clear
>> case of vendor locking. Is there any way to protest?
>>
>> Thanks and regards,
>> Mithun,
>> http://blog.imithun.in
>>
> See we can do it, DTE, also MKCL developed site are purely made microsoft
oriented  only keep in mind that most of the users will be IE, this is a
simple business monopoly which played by the organisation like DTE, MKCL.

Same thing happening from last two year, online admission process for FYJC
i.e 11th student is online all over the maharashtra. And the apps runs in IE
only. They simply ignored the ppl who are using Mozilla, chrome and other
browsers which are open source.

Last year I had written a letter to the head of MKCL, that "I don't have
access to IE, I am a linux user works with Mozilla Firefox for browsing.
What should I do?", I didn't get any reply for that but there is strong
oppose from FSF, and many other user so they make available site for firefox
too.

This year to locate nearby college they required some specialised
application known as "Silver light " which is pure microsoft product. In
mozilla you suppose to see it, you require to install this app, and it moves
you to microsoft site... which say's the application can not install in your
machine.

For linux they have given link to " Moonlight", developed by Novell which is
OSS, even though installing that add-on in firefox, not able to view that
particular page.


The point is you have write to DTE, and tell them just to make simple static
pages or tell them to use CMS( Content Management System) which can be see
on any browser easily. Or allow browsers like mozilla to view these sites.

I will advice that, you just sent this thing to FSF so that they can take
action with you to oppose this type of Business monopoly.....

Good Luck



Regards,
Ganesh (Dragger)
Be FOSSERS, Use GNU/Linux
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On Tuesday 27 July 2010 12:46 AM, शंतनू wrote:

Did you try to send feedback/email using above links? If no, the first
step would be sending email and sending feedback as well.

I also stumbled upon http://dte.org.in/rdte/index.asp

regards,
shantanoo

Yes I did tried. Their feedback system isn't working, and the email ID given is also dead! Thats the way our governmental bodies operate their websites.

Regards,
Mithun
*
On 07/27/2010 12:46 AM, शंतनू wrote:
> On Monday 26 July 2010 10:24 AM, Mithun Shitole wrote:
>> Hi,
>>     Engineering, Diploma etc. admissions processes are online. The
>> website for it is dte.org.in . Unfortunately Technical board doesn't
>> seems to care about users who don't use IE. When you go to
>> http://www.dte.org.in/FE2010/StaticPages/Default.aspx , this is what
>> it says: "Sorry, this Application is Supported only on IE6, IE7 & IE8" .
>> Same applies when Diploma admission link is visited. I think this is
>> clear case of vendor locking. Is there any way to protest?
>>
> http://dte.org.in/feedback/feedback.asp
> http://dte.org.in/contact/contact.asp
>
> Did you try to send feedback/email using above links? If no, the first
> step would be sending email and sending feedback as well.
>
> I also stumbled upon http://dte.org.in/rdte/index.asp

I would recommend calling in addition to emails to get in touch with the
person in charge.  It definitely has a higher impact.  Do explain that
it is not just Linux users.  Over 30% of the global market is using
non-IE browsers on Windows as well.   This includes Firefox,  Chrome,
Safari etc.

Rahul
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On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 02:10:24PM +0530, Ganesh Gajare wrote:
> 2010/7/27 शंतनू
>
> > On Monday 26 July 2010 10:24 AM, Mithun Shitole wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>    Engineering, Diploma etc. admissions processes are online. The website
> >> for it is dte.org.in . Unfortunately Technical board doesn't seems to
> >> care about users who don't use IE. When you go to
> >> http://www.dte.org.in/FE2010/StaticPages/Default.aspx , this is what it
> >> says: "Sorry, this Application is Supported only on IE6, IE7 & IE8" .
> >> Same applies when Diploma admission link is visited. I think this is clear
> >> case of vendor locking. Is there any way to protest?
> >>
> >> Thanks and regards,
> >> Mithun,
> >> http://blog.imithun.in

A few days back there was a similar thread on income tax return filing
working only with MS Office. No amount of writing mails to authorities has
helped.

Don't know whether a PIL (public interest litigation) is a way to awaken
the system.

Mayuresh.
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On Wednesday 28 July 2010 09:38:54 Mayuresh wrote:
> Don't know whether a PIL (public interest litigation) is a way to awaken
> the system.

Thats a long winded way..

I think some bad publicity and public pressure would help it better.

Some thing like MKCL does not test their sites under alternate browser and
force IE out of assumption when the site actually works fine with user-agent
spoofing, so there really isn't anything IE specific(yet!)


--
Regards
 Shridhar
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On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:21:11AM +0530, Shridhar Daithankar wrote:
> Thats a long winded way..
>
> I think some bad publicity and public pressure would help it better.
>
> Some thing like MKCL does not test their sites under alternate browser and
> force IE out of assumption when the site actually works fine with user-agent
> spoofing, so there really isn't anything IE specific(yet!)
>
>
> --
> Regards
>  Shridhar

That's true. However the issue is not only with browsers but also with
products like Office.

It can be seen as a more general issue. I think, no policy makers or
vendors or public at large realize price implications of proprietary
platforms. Guess a significant proportion of the users may be using
pirated installations. (Think of it, how many would file IT returns by
buying MS Excel just for it?) Indirectly it is also promoting piracy.

While everything that helps should be tried, the real ownership of the
apps is not with the software vendor but with their customer - Govt.
Besides PIL (which I agree is long drawn), don't know whether other means
such as RTI, media coverage, making such questions reach political parties
that can pursue it in the parliament (Sounds too much? But that's
officially supposed to be the way in democracy!) are feasible or not.

Besides Govt processes, there are schools mandating students to do their
assignments in certain office software. May be that's even harder to
change till the awareness at large increases.

Mayuresh.
*
Has anybody apprised श्री अण्णा हजारे on such .tvog issues?
*
On Wednesday 28 July 2010 10:49:00 Mayuresh wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 10:21:11AM +0530, Shridhar Daithankar wrote:
> > Thats a long winded way..
> >
> > I think some bad publicity and public pressure would help it better.
> >
> > Some thing like MKCL does not test their sites under alternate browser
> > and force IE out of assumption when the site actually works fine with
> > user-agent spoofing, so there really isn't anything IE specific(yet!)
>
> That's true. However the issue is not only with browsers but also with
> products like Office.

I think its about perception, ease-of-use and general sheep mentality coupled
with lack of training. People do not understand computer. That it works, is a
miracle to them and want to protect the status-quo at all the levels.

This phenomenon is far more widespread than it is apparent. I know of
commercial web developers who treat html files like binary. They cannot read
it if opened in notepad, they need dreamweaver to edit htmls. Neither they can
detect what is changed since last time.

I have collected fees for "cleaning" malware infected html files using sed but
I would rather not have to do it.


> It can be seen as a more general issue. I think, no policy makers or
> vendors or public at large realize price implications of proprietary
> platforms. Guess a significant proportion of the users may be using
> pirated installations. (Think of it, how many would file IT returns by
> buying MS Excel just for it?) Indirectly it is also promoting piracy.

Most people will pay a CA to do accounts and file the returns.  Thing is
people do not understand IT and technology nor do they want to.(thats not
limited to software/computers alone. how many people maintain air pressure in
their vehicle tyres regularly or follow a servicing schedule?)

Its a eternal problem of geek v/s non-geek thats just reflected in the policy
by popular demand.

> While everything that helps should be tried, the real ownership of the
> apps is not with the software vendor but with their customer - Govt.
> Besides PIL (which I agree is long drawn), don't know whether other means
> such as RTI, media coverage, making such questions reach political parties
> that can pursue it in the parliament (Sounds too much? But that's
> officially supposed to be the way in democracy!) are feasible or not.

I am skeptical on relying on the government. I guess that sums up what I feel
about it.  :(

> Besides Govt processes, there are schools mandating students to do their
> assignments in certain office software. May be that's even harder to
> change till the awareness at large increases.

FOSS did make inroads in that syllabus. Sudhanwa was instrumental in
participating the efforts to replace software required in curriculum with FOSS
alternatives such as gcc, postgresql etc. Lots of curriculum(at least in pune
uni.) need foss alternative.

However that has not resulted in any net value to students and educators IMO.
Colleges have linux installations, many a times only one machine which
somebody has setup long time ago and teachers are afraid to touch(I have seen
redhat 6.2 running 3-4 years ago). Nobody knows how to install a linux distro.
and do not think thats a problem to start with.

There could be exceptions but by-and-large they are exceptions.

it keeps coming back to geek v/s geek-curious debate. Curiosity is what
separates geeks from others. rest are just consequences.

--
Regards
 Shridhar     
***********************************************************************
It's called bureaucracy.
***********************************************************************

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